Oleg Tistol. About culture and its great meaning

23

May

2018

A unique art project "The End of Spring" by Oleg Tistol and Sergei Sviatchenko starts today within the International Art Festival Kyiv Art Week.  It is supported by the Brovdi Art Foundation and Abramovych.Art platform. Introducing the authors of the project, we continue the series of interviews by a journalist Roksana Rublevska. Thus, here is the conversation with the artist Oleg Tistol to your attention.

At the initiative of the art dealer Igor Abramovych, ART UKRAINE continues the cycle of interviews with the famous Ukrainian artists under the title ART NOW. In a series of interviews, artists tell the details about new projects, contemplate about the socio-political and cultural contexts of today, the problems of the national art and the prospects for its development.

Since the 80s, Oleg Tistol has been under the watchful eye of the international art community. And this is not surprising, because, having been formed during the joyful expectation of the collapse of the Soviet system, his art combined a completely unique art style with critical European thinking. His works, some of which are in the collections of the USA, Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, Norway and the Netherlands, are characterized by research interest in a thorough study of historical and political processes, a philosophical rethinking of the past, postmodern irony, eclecticism and emphasized national colour. A regular author of ART UKRAIN Roksana Rublevska asked the artist about his new series of works, being prepared together with the Ukrainian-Danish artist Sergei Sviatchenko, and about the culture as a basis of the developed civilization.

What kind of moral feature is the most important for an artist, in your opinion?

Fanatic honesty and professional courage.

It seems to me that hypertrophied honesty is a thing which some of your colleagues have been speculating on within the last 4 years, haven’t they?

I understand what you mean, but honesty is different. Mental hygiene, integrity and decency. One either has it or he doesn’t, it is impossible to depict it. If a person is honest, first of all with himself, he cannot speculate on this, because it testifies to his civility. Art, especially contemporary, is the highest manifestation of the development of civilization, thing which should be done in the post-industrial, post-informational and post-material epoch.

Oleg Tistol, Mykola Matsenko. Raimuzei Project at ArtUkraine Gallery, 2017. Fragment of exposition

If the artist's motivation is money, then it's not an artist. The economic component is important, this is a wonderful and universal means for creating values, therefore there is a well-developed market and grant system in the Western society. It is in order to ensure and secure talented authors so that they do not turn into migrant workers. Those, who work to become rich, have the status of decorators. Are there any in the West? Of course, there are. When an artist makes a scenery for a film, he knows how much a square meter costs and his reward is clear, which cannot be said about those engaged in the work on the theories of civilization development.

Despite the eclecticism of your work, it is deep and nationally oriented. What is the basis of your art and civic stand?

You used a good word “eclecticism”. In fact, it is a sign of diversity of my interests, which fit into one narrow interest – search for a place in the cultural life of civilization. I use different genres as a means of conveying beliefs, aesthetic and ethical discoveries, thus I do not care, whether it is sculpture, installation, or photography. I can express myself in any form. Surely, one day it will be summarized and everything will be arranged into a single coherent and understandable general scheme. The basis of my position is adequacy. Being a Ukrainian is a pleasure, especially after 2014, when everyone finally realized it. Once at my own London exhibition, which by the way was recognized as one of the top ten, the BBC journalist asked me what an artist I consider myself – an international or national one? It was very funny for me, and, especially, his appearance: a cradle, moustache, and a jacket with suede elbow patches. I replied as follows: “Having seen the folk elements in my works, it seems to you that I am exotic, but you cannot imagine how exotic you are to me, because you look like British and it is impossible to determine my nationality looking at me.” Therefore, the problem of exoticism is a problem of self-identification, and I am fond of it, not for the purpose of ideological speculation, but because these codes are inside me, they are semi-conscious.

Oleg Tistol, Mykola Matsenko. Raimuzei Project at ArtUkraine Gallery, 2017. Fragment of exposition

Is there the most complete type of an artist to serve as an example for our contemporary artists?

Yes, there are two types of artists, the main and understandable both for an artist and audience – Leonardo da Vinci and Vincent van Gogh. Leonardo is a very powerful social unit, a thinker who opens the world and explores it, applies his gift in any field in order to achieve the best results in the development of living space by means of culture. Van Gogh is a sectoral professional who came to the top of development through his fanatical commitment to the most effective way of expressing. Speaking about my own preferences, they are both close to me. I want artists to be respected by society, as Leonardo was, and at the same time, I want them not to stop looking inward, still being focused and continue on their chosen path.

Natsprom (Oleg Tistol, Mykola Matsenko). ‘O lovely maidens, fall in love…’

In one of your interviews, you noticed that Ukrainian artists know the difference between culture and its imitation since they are neighbours to the barbarians, but now in Ukraine, one can also follow the tendency of cultural imitation, is it true?

Such a problem exists, but it is too weak. That’s why it is not a threat to us. We are very different in outlook from the Russians. There is a great difference between our cultural processes, ours is inalienable and natural. There is no such a hierarchical system "superior-subordinate" in Ukraine, and therefore Russian business schemes do not work. Our people are engaged in culture, consciously, semi-consciously or unknowingly, simply by taking part in real cultural life, not serving an ideology.

One way or another, but a Ukrainian artist does not even sell out to anyone, so there is no chance of being unfree. Fortunately, we were born in a territory where it is simply unprofitable to be a slave. In Russia, any cultural phenomenon is used as a cover for aggressive policies. Thus, no matter how many formal similarities can be found, our essence is absolutely different. Returning to honesty, I will say that art cannot be an imitation, you have the right to make mistakes, but sincerely, then people do need it.

Can you say that young Ukrainian artists imitate the Western topics in their art: gender equality, the struggle for rights of sexual minorities, biological terrorism? As for me, it seems incomprehensible and inappropriate to our people.

There are art groups that are trying to be opportunistic, and therefore is pseudo-western-oriented. It is also a relic of the USSR: to find a place at a ‘master’ in order to show that authorities need you and as soon as possible to get your legitimate grant in the international institutions. That is why my generation of talented artists left and then travelled back to Ukraine. We wanted to see the world, to evaluate ourselves through the eyes of civilized experts. No one stayed for a long in Moscow, they got to the West through it. Finally, having understood everything, we came back and the real cultural process began. I will not stop repeating this phrase.  

Oleg Tistol

Once you noticed that the crisis, war and revolution had a healing effect on the Ukrainian art environment, but not vice versa?

I meant that it has and will have in the future. The crisis of the genre, that is happening now, is very useful. Weak cultural institutions are being closed and young talented artists are forced to do what we did in the late 80s – to prove their vitality. We cannot reform the education system. We can only completely break down the old one and create a new one. Our territory is a huge gift, we are doomed to be a rich country, so we build a territory of culture because there is no other sense of existence here. We have an inborn aesthetics, ‘mental hygiene’, and no matter how many tries of creating Russian show business in fine arts are there in Ukraine, it is intended for a cheapskate-consumer who fled in 2014.

Now you have started a "plywood period" in your creativity. Which project are you working on?

Now I’m working on the project that will be shown within the framework of the Kyiv Art Week jointly with Sergei Sviatchenko –  the artist with whom we started our career in the late 80s. Our last exhibition "Flash" was in 1991. After that Sergei went to Denmark, where he became a well-known artist and came back not so long ago. So we decided to make a joint installation which will be titled "The End of Spring". It will include collages, photos, stained-glass windows, sculptures. The name is associated with the arrival of Sviatchenko to Ukraine and also we continue with the theme of the struggle for the cultural territory, Crimea, which was perceived as a paradise in the Soviet times. I want to note that plywood is an expensive and very interesting material, and the project became possible thanks to Igor Abramovych and Robert Brovdi. Why do I mention these names? This is not a commercial break, our plans with Sergei would not be realized without them. I always dreamed that a lot of people could participate in such art events, then it would be clear that it was really important to someone. By the way, Sviatchenko and I also use eclectic elements to achieve the greatest art performance and expressiveness.

Are there any materials you want to work with, but it requires a lot of funds?

I dream to go in architecture, because we’ve got huge problems with it. I want to set new trends and at the same time to recall what is the true Ukrainian architecture, and, if I have any opportunities, I will gladly experiment in monumental sculpture.

Your work, created jointly with Mykola Matsenko, is currently being exhibited at the Budapest Museum of Ludwig within the "Permanent Revolution" project. What are your impressions on the initiative of the organizers and curators of this exhibition?

Curators have their own stylistics, passion, strategy, but I'm quite happy with the result. There should be a lot of such projects, if someone is unsatisfied – make your own version. I have never fought against anyone's vision and have always supported the independence of any artistic practice. Although, I see Ukrainian art for 30 years in my own way with other accents, and on this author presentation I am working with Sergei Sviatchenko and Mykola Matsenko. Comparing large museum exhibitions is possible only when there is something to compare. I am for a healthy creative competition and I want the best American and European expositions to burst in here. In a word, it seems important to me to produce ideas, implement them and present them in the West and not to be afraid of criticism.

Natsprom (Oleg Tistol, Mykola Matsenko). Together Forever, 2013

Author of the text: Roksana Rublevska
Author of the photo fragments of the exposition –  Olena Illienko
Author of the photo from the studio – Oleg Tistol
ART UKRAINE